
Q & A: Vannina Santoni On Performing The Title Role In Bru-Zane’s New Recording Of Massenet’s Grisélidis
By Alan Neilson(Photo: courtesy of Vannina Santoni)
Jules Massenet completed more than 30 operas over the course of his career, scoring numerous successes. Within a few years of his death, however, his reputation had faded. Today, apart from “Werther,” “Manon” and to a lesser extent “Thaïs,” most opera-goers would struggle to name more than one or two other titles. Opera companies reinforce the situation; while one or two of his lesser-known operas such as “Cendrillion” or “Don Quichotte” receive an occasional performance, the majority have been ignored. Recordings of his operas have faired little better, with the same pattern being replicated.
Fortunately, the Palazetto Bru Zane – Centre de Musique Romantique Français, an organization dedicated to the rediscovery and international promotion of the French musical heritage between the years 1780 to 1920, is working hard to reestablish the forgotten and neglected music of the period through concerts, publications, conferences, and recordings on its Bru Zane label, including the work of Massenet. So far they have released recordings of “Thérèse,” (1907), “La Mage” (1891), “Ariane” (1906) and “Werther” (1893). Recently, they have added a recording of his opera “Grisélidis” from 1901 to its catalogue.
It is a romantic tale set in France during the time of the Crusades, centered around Grisélidis, whose faith in God and love for her absent husband are tested by the Devil. It successfully mixes the serious trials and temptations experienced by Grisélidis with the comic antics of the playful and not so playful Devil in a drama that pitches good against evil.
The recording boasts an impressive cast, under the baton of Jean-Marie Zeitouni conducting the Orchestre National Montpellier Occitanie, including Corsican soprano Vannina Santoni in the title role, who agreed to talk to OperaWire about the recording.
OperaWire: What attracted you to “Grisélidis” and to singing the title role?
Vannina Santoni: Firstly, it is an opera by Massenet, so I knew immediately that the music would be fabulous, although I must admit I was a little skeptical about singing the role at the beginning. I liked the story, especially the way it combines the serious with the comic and romance, but I am not a religious person; I do not believe in God or the Devil, and I was therefore a little anxious about being able to present Grisélidis with the necessary strength of faith and belief.
However, once I had studied the text, I realized that it is not really a work about God or the Devil. Rather, it is about love and faithfulness to one’s husband, as well as the love of a mother for her daughter. It is about human emotions, strength and commitment. In many ways, I see it as similar to Gounod’s “Faust,” although lacking its philosophical dimensions.
OW: Do you see anything of yourself in Grisélidis?
VS: Definitely! When I first read the script, I didn’t see much of myself in this religiously devout woman, but as I came to understand that she is, in fact, a strong woman full of love, I started to identify closely with her. In many ways, I am the same as Grisélidis; I am a person with lots of love: for my husband, my children and my family.
OW: Before you made the recording, you sang it in a concert performance. Is it more difficult to fashion the character you are singing when you’re not actually acting it out?
VS: The role was new for me, as was the opera itself, and therefore it was very important for me to be able to focus on the music and the drama. This means I had a lot to concentrate on and a lot to do, and maybe it helped that I could focus in this way without concerning myself with the acting. Although we obviously had rehearsals before the recording sessions, I do think it was very important that I sang the concert performance; it helped a lot.
Now I would love to sing it in a stage performance, which I do think will enable me to understand different aspects about Grisélidis’ character and about the drama. As far as I know, there are no plans for a fully staged performance at the moment, but I hope that this recording will inspire a company and a director to consider putting on a production.
OW: Is it a role that suits your voice? What are its challenges?
VS: It is a new role for me, and obviously each role brings its own challenges. I have sung Thaïs and Manon, but the vocal lines for Grisélidis are very different. It is a role that requires a full lyrical soprano with a rich middle register and a wide tessitura with secure high and low notes, which fits nicely with my voice.
There are some difficulties, however. For example, there is a big aria, “Loys! Loys!” in Act three that needs plenty of stamina. However, I do not concentrate on the difficulties. I want to sing the entire role, managing it with my feelings and intuition. I have a very positive approach.
OW: Do you find it difficult to perform a work that mixes genres?
VS: Not at all. On the contrary, it creates more opportunities. It allows you to think, sing and express yourself in different ways depending upon the character with which you are interacting. The colors within the orchestra and in the vocal line change accordingly. Sometimes I need to sing with a soft emission, while at other times it needs to be more strident, and I enjoy playing with my voice in this way.
OW: What do you think about the way Grisélidis’ husband treated her?
VS: Possibly he is a bit naïve, and his behavior suggests he is arrogant. Basically, he has the mind of a military man of action and duty and expects his wife to remain faithful.
OW: Reading through the libretto, it is easy to start laughing at the scenes that include the Devil, especially those with his nagging wife. Do you think that this detracts from Grisélidis’ struggles or her character?
VS: No! On the contrary, I think it’s a good thing to have the contrast. The Devil is simply playing; life is a game to him and nothing more. What he is doing is actually evil, and this helps highlight the goodness of Grisélidis’ constant nature.
OW: The Devil is a very strong part. Does he eclipse the other characters?
VS: It is a very good part and an essential one for driving the opera forward. He brings chaos to the drama, and this is why Grisélidis has to be so strong. He has the opportunity to play at life, while people like Grisélidis don’t, and this makes the audience or listener more empathetic to her situation. She is a woman being attacked by the Devil; it is natural to side with her. We would be less sympathetic if it were just a man trying to seduce Grisélidis. It is essential that he is a strong character, but I don’t think he eclipses her.
OW: Massenet’s famous heroines, Charlotte, Manon and Thaïs are very different in character from the loyal, faithful and constant Grisélidis. Would you say that it therefore makes her a less interesting character to play?
VS: No. I don’t approach a character in that way. When I engage with a new character, I always try to find a way to bring out their interesting side. It is up to me as the singer to defend my character. I have to find the depth. At the moment, I am singing Micaëla in “Carmen,” and she is a difficult character to defend. We don’t really know much about her, and so I have to invent a backstory to make her more interesting. I see her as the only one in the opera who really knows and understands Don José; she knows that he is a little mad. She loves him, but she also wants to save him. This allows me to create a more developed character.
So no, I don’t find Grisélidis a less interesting character than Massenet’s other heroines.
OW: Today, we only really get to see “Werther” or “Manon” and maybe “Thais,” yet Massenet wrote over 30 operas, the majority of which have been largely neglected or ignored. How do you view Massenet as an opera composer?
VS: For me, we should be comparing Massenet to Puccini. He knows exactly how to write the vocal line and how to adjust the colors of the orchestra, and he creates an intelligent balance between the qualities of the voice and the orchestra.
It is interesting to read a score by Massenet because he goes into very small details about how a role should be sung. He is very precise, very explicit about what he wants from the singer. He knew the voice very well, and this is reflected in the instructions he gives.
I do not know why his operas are not performed as regularly as one may expect. Maybe it’s because they require a large orchestra with excellent singers. Another problem may be that it can be very difficult to create good stagings for his operas. They need beautiful sets with beautiful costumes to be successful.
Also, many directors and companies want to program what already exists. They don’t want to take risks. I think this is a problem in our society generally. For example, I sang Gounod’s “La Nonne Sanglante,” which is basically unknown, yet the music is so beautiful. It is a mystery to me as to why this happens.
Of course, much of this is speculation, but I do know it’s something we should fight to change, and this is why I’m so happy to have recorded “Grisélidis.” As a French singer, I am very happy to have performed the role and to record my interpretation.
OW: What are your plans for the next 12 months?
VS: I will sing my first Marguerite in Gounod’s “Faust” in a new staging in Lille and at the Opera Comique in Paris.
I shall also be releasing my first solo album, “Par Amour,” on the Alpha Classics label. It is a compilation of French and Italian arias by Massenet, Gounod, Puccini, Alfano, Verdi and Catalani, which has been designed to showcase my voice. It is due out on St. Valentine’s Day this February.
I am also very excited about a movie called “La Bohème 2050,” directed by Sébastien Guèze and based upon Puccini’s “La Bohème,” in which I shall be singing and acting. Mimi is not human but artificial intelligence, and it deals with issues of climate change. We are currently sorting out its distribution. I am really looking forward to seeing how this will be received.