American mezzo-soprano Irene Roberts is in the midst of becoming one of the most in-demand Wagnerian singers of her generation.

Over the past seasons, Roberts has performed the roles of Kundry, Sieglinde and Brangäne. While there are some Strauss, Bizet, Verdi and Mascagni works that she continues to perform, the mezzo’s next role is none other than Isolde at the Tiroler Festspiele Erl, a role mostly associated with dramatic sopranos.

Roberts is a former member of the ensemble at Deutsche Oper Berlin, and her meteoric rise has allowed her to perform at many of the world’s great opera houses including the Metropolitan Opera, Bayerische Staatsoper, San Francisco Opera, Dutch National Opera, and Teatro La Fenice, among many others.

OperaWire had a chance to speak with Roberts about Wagner, her upcoming Isolde, and keeping her voice flexible while performing Wagner.

OperaWire: You started being a lyric mezzo and evolved into these more dramatic roles. Can you tell me about that evolution?

Irene Roberts: Yeah, I’d say things shifted in my mid-30s. I’m 43 now, and, looking back, I’m not sure if the shift would have happened were I not in Germany because of the size of the houses here and because Wagner is done so much more often here. There are more opportunities for singers who are testing out this repertoire to try things in places like Klagenfurt. I sang my first Venus in “Tannhauser” in Klagenfurt many years ago, and this was a recommendation from my boss, the casting director at Deutsche Oper Berlin, who knows my voice probably better than anybody else here, and he recommended me for that. And then that gig led to the casting director in Hanover, and then he asked me to do my first Kundry, and then that Kundry led to my Munich debut as Kundry. And then that led to another thing. And these things are all connected.

It’s hard to say if my voice would have grown if I didn’t have kids. For women, having children changes the hormones and sometimes makes things difficult, sometimes it makes things easier. So I think it was a combination of those things, me being in Germany and the age, and I’ve had a pretty consistent technique all of these years. I studied with a baritone in New York, and I think it was just the right time trying out the new repertoire. And then the new repertoire in a way supported my voice growing larger.

And I’m not saying I’m going to sing Isolde in San Francisco or at the Met. My instrument isn’t cavernous, but I can definitely cut over an orchestra. And, I mean, who knows what will happen? But, I’m still singing both mezzo and soprano roles. So, I’m not telling people I’m switching to be a dramatic soprano.

But more of this Waltraud Meier path. When you look her up online, you might see on Wikipedia, German, dramatic mezzo-soprano. You might see somewhere else dramatic soprano. And maybe in America, there are more black and white lines for these kinds of fach categorizations. But luckily here, the Zwischen fach is something that’s really understood. You don’t have to be in one box or the other. There can be singers that sing roles from both. But I will never sing Dalila, for example. I’m more likely to sing Brunnhilde in five years than Dalila in five years.

OW: That’s interesting given you did some lyric mezzo roles.

IR: I did many Carmens and also many Rosinas. But the coloratura was never my specialty. I was just good on stage and fun and comfortable. And I think when we see Rossini, we want to see singers that are comfortable and are present with their colleagues to be there for these, like, perfect comedic moments. So I had my time with those, but the top two thirds of my voice have always been easy to access. So in a way, this makes sense.

I don’t have the tessitura of a soprano. I was asked to sing Senta and Salome, and those just sit a lot higher than Isolde even. Of course, Isolde is a longer role and is incredibly demanding, but Salome and Senta sit higher. And I don’t know if I’ll go in those directions.

OW: Having sung Bel Canto roles and Wagner being inspired by Bellini, do you think that it helped you prepare to do these Wagnerian roles?

IR: I would have to say yes, because I think the training is in bel canto, which is learning to sing with your instrument and learning to train your instrument to the best of its ability, meaning being able to sing messa di voce in all parts of your voice and fine tuning legato in all parts of your voice and then training the muscles at an early age to be flexible.

And I think there’s this misunderstanding in the Wagner repertoire that it’s always loud and it’s always blasting, where it’s quite the opposite. Some of the most dramatic moments are the quietest, most intimate dynamics and without the flexibility of the vocal cords, you can’t really achieve it. And I think with Bel Canto training, you train the cords to be flexible. It’s like starting yoga at an early age and not going into heavy weightlifting at 20.

OW: You have done the role of Brangäne. Tell me about that role.

OW: Yes. I’ve been singing Brangäne every season. I have done three productions of “Tristan und Isolde” as Brangäne this season, which is kind of a lot for one opera. But each time I do it, Brangäne’s “Ruf” in Act two, just gets slower and slower. Part of these long lines is being comfortable. It’s not only training. It’s not only athletic support and lungs, You get to a certain point in being comfortable in this repertoire where you can relax and then actually you can do more.

And actually, that feeling of being comfortable in this repertoire was part of the reason I said yes to the Isolde.

OW: I once heard a mezzo say that many Brangänes end up singing Isolde because the tessitura was similar. Is that something that you feel as you are studying Isolde?

IR: I know that some like Waltraud Meier, Violetta Urmana, and Katerina Dalayman did that. But I think actually the tessitura of Brangäne is stuck right on the staff and just above. Whereas Isolde sits lower and goes higher. But most of Act one, which is the bulk of Brangäne’s singing, it’s so much in the middle voice and then stuck in the passaggio, which I find can be a bit more tiring than Isolde is organized and even Kundry because that sits in the middle voice, which is really nice for a mezzo, but then pops up to the top a lot, but doesn’t just sit there.

There are a couple moments in “Tristan und Isolde” when they finally see each other which is high. But this is the kind of athletic singing, which is different from floating up top.

So I think the Brangäne to Isolde is interesting. It kind of sits in a similar place, but Brangäne has so many interjections, and she’s really a support singer, whereas Isolde can actually take time and sing these long phrases. And I think the comfort of moving from Brangäne to Isolde happens because if you have sung Brangäne dozens of times, you already know the role, basically. There’s so much with Isolde already there.

OW: When you got the offer to do Isolde, what was your reaction? And did you think about it before you said yes?

IR: Well, I’ve been thinking about it for the last two years. Every sitzprobe I was in, I would take little notes. And actually, last year, Nina [Stemme] and I did a concert version of “Tristan” in Stockholm. And I said, “God, that part just seems relentless and so difficult.” And she looked at me and she said, “You could do it. You could do this whole thing.”

I thought “Wow, Nina Stemme just told me I could sing Isolde.” And the year before, her husband told me the same thing when we were all in Palermo together. And of course, her husband has heard almost all of hers. And I thought, “Okay, he’s a stage director and set designer, but he still knows the voices and he knows the repertoire.” There have been a few conductors that have said it to me also.

It was actually in Amsterdam when I was doing my most recent “Tristan und Isolde” with the young Finnish conductor Tarmo Peltokoski. We were working on Sieglinde preparing for this concert and he said, “You should sing Isolde.”

After all these comments, I said to him “The last two years there have been several people that have said this to me and I’ve really been thinking about it.”

So I called my manager and asked him to look for an opportunity to perform the “Liebestod” and Act two in concert because this is common. He said okay and asked if I should update my repertory list. I said, “Yes, please do.”

He updated it and sent it out and no joke, within 20 minutes he got the call from the casting director in Erl, Jonas [Kaufmann’s] festival asking me to sing it there. I was really quite shocked because I didn’t expect it to be that soon. But I trust my manager and I trust Jonas too. We did “Parsifal” last year and I think for these big leaps, for these big role debuts, of course you have to have your own self-confidence and knowledge of your voice, but you also have to trust your team. And trust the people who hear this potential.

OW: Next season you are doing Kundry and Isolde at Erl. How different is the tessitura between these characters?

IR: I would say more mezzos than sopranos will do it. There are a few Kundry’s that also sing Sieglinde. But I think in general, it’s more accessible for a mezzo than a soprano because so much of her character and her motive and her intention is expressed in her middle voice. When she and Parsifal are alone on stage and it’s more often than not that mezzos have access to this open emotional quality in the middle of their voice because they’re relaxed and there’s no strain. And I think that’s the main thing. Sopranos often can feel a little bit strained in the low middle and that cannot be Kundry. She has to be relaxed and completely in control. And you have to hear that in the voice.

But as far as where the role sits, it’s not so different, actually. Isolde has a high C, but Kundry has a high B natural. It’s just that Isolde is 20 times more. Kundry has two B naturals and then Isolde has two high Cs and then so many Bs and B flats. So, yes, Kundry times 20.

OW: In a way Wagner balanced “Tristan und Isolde” perfectly.

IR: I feel that Wagner understands these voices. I had an agent one time who told me that if you sing Verdi, you can sing Wagner and vice versa. It’s the same. This was a conversation trying to convince me to sing Amneris for the first time. And I said, “I don’t know. It’s different, Verdi and Wagner.”

I said, “In the emotional climax, that’s when the voice is going up to reach the highest note. You’re going on a vocal climax and an emotional climax at the same time. And not every voice is built to handle that.”

But he thought that it was really the same. And I disagree. I think we should all have this training, this Bel canto training to navigate both. But the voice really understands going through the passagio, not staying in the passagio, and this balance of being grounded and singing high as well.

OW: How do you maintain your voice fresh when singing all these dramatic roles?

IR: Well, right now, my calendar this year has been all Wagner. I had the two performances of “Carmen” in November, and everything else has been Wagner. Next season as well.

I do have Strauss, the Komponist and Santuzza, and then everything else is Wagner.

So of course I can say yes and no to all my offers. But if I say no because I don’t want to sing all Wagner, then I’m not going to have work. Most of my work and inquiries are Wagner. So when I’m not in a show, I always practice pianissimo singing as much as I possibly can. I always make sure that I can still sing really soft and the best legato I can manage because I really believe in the fine tuning of the vocal cords.

I’ve sung in many Wagner operas with some people who have been singing it for 30 years and I can hear when the chords don’t come together easily. It’s like they’re apart and then they smack together and then the sound is loud. And some years ago, I made the commitment to myself to not let that happen. And I believe, as far as vocal technique goes, that it’s about being able to sing pianissimo. And sometimes, I’ll practice lieder, little songs–French or Brahms or Mahler or sing my roles really piano. Because I think that’s the best way to maintain vocal health. I think it’s really important to maintain that flexibility.

OW: You were at the Deutsche Oper Berlin. What were the benefits of being in the ensemble? And how did that train you for your career now?

IR: I think singers perform best when they are comfortable in their bodies on stage. And I think that comfort comes from repeated success. When you are in an ensemble you perform anywhere from 30 to 60 times in one year, and you have so many opportunities to become comfortable in your own skin. Some of those roles are going to be the smallest roles possible and some will give you an opportunity to shine. And when you do have that opportunity to shine, you will already be comfortable on that stage with the acoustic. In my experience, that’s what sets you up for success.

That’s why auditions are so difficult, because we’re in weird rooms, we don’t know the people, we don’t know the acoustic, and we barely know the pianist. And there’s so much tension already there. And any singer knows you can’t take a deep breath if you’re nervous. You can’t express the character if you’re nervous.

One of the great things about the ensemble is the number of performances you’re given. Some casting directors are better than others as far as hearing potential in voices. I got really lucky, I worked hard and I’m consistent. So I kept building and I was given opportunities.

A lot of singers will come to Germany and think, if I get into an ensemble, my career is made. But you have to be resilient. You have to learn roles fast, because sometimes you’re rehearsing three different roles in a week, and you have to be consistent and comfortable on stage.

European audiences want to see singers who completely open themselves up and give everything. They will take that over perfect, flawless singing and you learn that in the ensemble.

In this comfort zone, you can discover more things about yourself that you may not have noticed in a high stakes debut.

OW: What were some of the biggest challenges while you were in the ensemble?

IR: I was asked to sing in “Written on Skin” two or three years ago and it was at the time I was refreshing my second Kundry of the season to sing in Berlin and then in Munich for my Munich debut.

Learning the notes and everything was fine. But, because I was jumping in for a Cherubino, which was totally wild because it was like all Wagner that season. But I had that in my mind and I had this Munich debut and I had Kundry in my voice and then also trying to do this “Written on Skin.” I was starting to feel really overwhelmed and I thought “Written on Skin” is the type of piece where you can only execute if everything in your life is geared towards those performances. The music is so difficult and it requires such focus. And that was something I had to cancel. But in the ensemble you have to find balance.

Most people have a full personal life if they’re in an ensemble with a family or full social life.  And that’s something you also have to be able to do.

You have to multitask and to know what you’re capable of. That was one point where I felt I reached my max and that was my eighth season there.

It can get to be a lot. Not even about whether the role fits or not, but just the demand and the schedule.

OW: Is Verdi a composer that you would like to explore more of?

IR: I had a lot of fun singing Eboli for the first time last year, and it was a great cast. It was Jonathan Tetelman’s first Don Carlo and it was Federico Lombardi’s first Elisabetta. Alex Esposito had already done it a few times, but the three of us were making big debuts together and it was great.

As with any role debut, after you finish the run of shows, you’re like, “Okay, I can do this better. I can do this differently. Yeah, I gotta stay calm here.”

So I would look forward to doing that again because it’s normal. The second or third time is always better than the first time. But that might be the only other Verdi role right now that I would like to do again.

Amneris just sits too low. It’s great once she’s singing her duet with Radamès at the end because that’s high and it has great phrases. But in the beginning, it just sits so low and for me, my voice doesn’t spin there. It doesn’t take off. And that’s uncomfortable for me.

Everything else is low and I have been asked about Lady Macbeth, but I think we should just wait and see.

OW: Obviously casting influences a lot. Do you think that influences when you are about to accept a role?

IR: With Isolde, when I was asked, I didn’t hesitate because I know Asher Fisch because he conducted the “Parsifal” last year. And for something like this, when I’m not like a standard textbook choice, I want to know the conductor knows what to expect. Because if I said yes to singing Azucena or something that I have the notes for, I don’t want to arrive and disappoint the conductor, who may be thinking I’m another type of mezzo.

And I think when it comes to this repertoire, if I were to sing Lady Macbeth one day, I would want to make sure that the conductor knows what to expect, because that has a lot to do with the outcome and the success of the role and the performance.

So for example, doing Isolde at Erl, I am working with Jonas Kaufmann. He’s a colleague because we did “Parsifal” together, but he’s also going to be my boss in Erl as well. And knowing that I am what he wants in their production of “Tristan und Isolde” already makes me feel like I will be good at it.

OW: As an American singer, your career is mostly in Europe. Are there plans to perform in America?

IR: I hope to. San Francisco Opera has been the one theater that I’ve gone back to the most for the last 13 years. I’ve sung there every two years or so. I also sang at the Met a long time ago and actually Corinne Winters and I were there at the exact same time. We were in the same competition of Palm Beach Opera, and Leonore Rosenberg gave us the same package deal with a cover of a great role, and then three small roles in the season. And that was my Met experience. And then I’ve done some concerts and I did the regional thing when I was starting out before I moved to Europe.

But I do want to go back to the states because I still have my parents, my brothers, and many friends in America. I love going back to America.

But I also want to be home with my kids as much as possible between work. Working in Munich, for example, there’s a high speed train that’s four hours to Berlin and that’s really important. That’s just as important. My life is very full with my little boys. And that’s hard with working in the States.

San Francisco, for example, when I was last there was a 8 to 10 week contract for “The Handmaid’s Tale.” That’s a long time. And you can’t easily go back and forth between Berlin and San Francisco. And it’s not a different quality of work and fulfillment here versus there. So that’s the challenge.

I have so many things that are number one priority. My kids are number one priority, my husband’s number one priority. My career and health are also number one priority.