OperaWire: We know the Tchaikovsky work of “Mazeppa.” How did you discover Clémence de Grandval’s “Mazeppa?”

And to tell you the truth, it’s because of the music that we were interested and in general because of Clémence de Grandval, not only “Mazeppa,” because the music seems really interesting. I won’t say it’s absolutely modern, but it’s on the level of Gounod and Massenet.

And then working on “Mazeppa,” we considered it as a possibility to be staged or at least recorded. And then when they were looking for women composers, we went to Munich and other partnerships who were asking for women composers and we promoted this “Mazeppa” with them.

We ended up doing the concerts and recording it in Munich. There was also a staged version in Dortmund. And I know that some other opera houses are considering the work now.

To tell also the truth, when we were working on “Mazeppa,” we of course had a look at all the other symphonic and lyric pieces of Grandval. And that’s why we will have a complete cycle dedicated to Grandval next season. So this “Mazeppa” is just the first part of the history with her.

OW: There’s a Tchaikovsky opera that’s very well known with the same title. Are there any similarities in the storyline in the librettos?

AD: Well, I think maybe some pianists, they know the Transcendental Étude No. 4 that is named Mazeppa. And you know, we have some Mazeppa in France with the Prix de Rome.

I would say that yes, what Madame de Grandval adds is the soprano character and she has a mad scene at the end like Ophelia in Hamlet and you have some romantic or lyrical spots that she adds. And so because of this woman character that is so important, a bit like in Tchaikovsky, but here maybe more, Mazeppa is psychologically more complex. He’s not such a good guy because he jokes politically with lots of people. So he’s more complex, I think in Grandval. But in the end, Matrena is the character that you consider and not Mazeppa.

And this is typically at the end of the romanticism, especially in France, like “Werther,” you consider more Charlotte than Werther  and in Gounod’s operas, you consider more Juliette than Romeo or Marguerite, more than Faust.

And this is exactly the same situation in the way the libretto is constructed.

OW: Are there any plans to show the work at a house like the Opéra de Paris or the Opéra Comique or any theater like these?

AD: I know that Nicole Car, who recorded the album, sings a lot at Paris Opera with her husband, Étienne Dupuis, had a discussion with the administration of the Paris Opera about “Mazeppa.” I don’t know what will come of it, but the problem with these big theaters like Wien or Berlin is that they have to have at least two casts of very well known singers. And if somebody is ill, they have to ask good singers to come and jump in. So that’s why they do well known titles like “Traviata” and “Rigoletto.”

It’s so expensive and it is so complicated that I understand why these big opera houses cannot easily consider this sort of piece.

OW: How did you guys get Nicole Car on board of the project?

AD: Well, in fact I have friends that are friends with Nicole. So in fact we are friends with Nicole and she told me, I would love to be part of your projects. And she didn’t wait for something special.

She told me, you know, my voice and I want to do projects as you do. So the first one I suggested for her was “Mazeppa” because it was already organized with Munich, but the cast was not done. And so she just read the music with the pianist and with me and immediately after the reading she said, I want to sing this.

And I would say that I see that after more than 15 years, lots of singers that are well known, like Marina Rebeka or Véronique Gens, or Nicole Car, they have the feeling that being part of this adventure, its special and a way to have a recording.

They don’t do so many recordings and Nicole, for example, she does not have a big discography. And I think they consider that it’s also a way to be useful for the profession. And they realize that we take time to do lots of rehearsing. And I think that is something that is missing in a big opera house. Sometimes they arrive, are pushed on stage after one piano rehearsal, and then they do what they can.

And I think for some singers, sometimes to just have time to work in a very good team, is something that reminds them why they learn music. And they did so many competitions and everything and not just to jump in and to sing a “Traviata” which they can, but also to be with friends or at least with colleagues, and work each bar as if it’s the most important thing in their life.

OW: How did you get involved in this work of rediscovering and finding these lost works and these rarely performed works?

AD: When I was young, with my twin brother, we were in a little city in France, that is Metz, it’s near Germany. And so we did a lot of chamber music because we played instruments and there was a huge library and you could go and take what you wanted. So I remember we did some viola quintets, for example. And I remember I went and I took the Spohr and Michael Haydn and we read this as if it was Mozart, Brahms or Schumann.

But I was maybe 16, and we all found it really exciting and sometimes really interesting music. And so I am used to playing rarities for my pleasure when I play piano with my brother. And so it is just considering this music as if it’s Mozart or Brahms. And you have to understand that you have to make some choices and you have to work better to choose a good cast and to give time to this music to be done with demand and quality.

And of course, today you know that you have so many “Nozze di Figaro” and “Rigoletto” and “Traviata.” Of course, people need to hear this where they live. For artists to give their own version of Contessa, it’s nice, but we have so many on CD that you can bring something else that is more exciting. With these rare works, I think you can do something more with this.

And for example, Nicole, I know that just before “Mazzepa,” she sang Antonia at the Wiener Staatsoper and just after she did her first “Simon Boccanegra.” And the press, they didn’t care about it. She had very few articles because nobody cares about a revival of “Les Contes d’Hoffmann” in Vienna. But for the “Mazzepa,” she got a press incredible with very good reviews on her and focused on her.

And I told her, you see, it’s strange because with Verdi and Offenbach in Wien and Munich you have two articles and with “Mazeppa” you have 20.

OW: What is that process of recording given that it is becoming a lost art and what have you found to be the biggest challenges of getting those recordings out?

AD: Well, as you know, today you have less and less recordings of a complete opera, but more and more people who want to do recording. If you want to exist in the communication of today, you have to record a video or at least one aria or one little passage. And so it means that we have lots of partners, and especially orchestras and choirs. They are free and happy to be part of this adventure.

It means also that they can invest money, at least the salaries and they can bring the venue. They can bring the orchestra with all the instruments you need. I think it’s easy to find a place and people to do recordings because they want to do it.

But then I think what makes the quality of a CD today, if we speak about opera, is really to consider a cast that is done for the microphone. And I think some voices are very impressive in a big venue because of the volume and the projection. But in fact, if you put a microphone on it, suddenly you have to consider the chest voice and vibrato and that can be very problematic. The text is not really French and you don’t have the good sound. And you don’t have good articulation. And so what is really specific, I think, is to find singers that could sing in the venue for an audience but also very good for the recording.

And that’s why I should say that sometimes some voices may not be the strongest but they sound great for a recording. Take for instance Tassis Christoyannis, who is Mazeppa in the recording. He makes colors that are really interesting when you hear the CD. And Nicole, she’s perfect because she can sing in a big venue, but in the meantime she can do pianissimos that are very soft and she doesn’t push the chest voice. She has a quality of French that is very interesting. I think that is what makes the difference.

OW: Tell me about the process of choosing the work and how do you know it’s the right project?

AD: It’s intuition. And this is something you don’t explain. You feel that this is interesting and with this singer, it could be even more interesting and with this conductor you will understand it immediately.

So you have to understand the music, the text and see it dramatically. You feel that even playing with piano, there is no blank, there is a good direction, it’s not too long, it’s not enough that it’s well written for the voice, that the text is interesting.

And then the very beginning of each opera project is to read it on the piano. And not only once.

For example, for “Mazeppa,” I remember we played this with my brother 16 years ago. It’s not just two months before we decide to do it. It means that you have to read it again and two years after you take the score again and you play again.

Then I have to speak with my colleague for the music publishing, because they have to find if there is still a publisher that has the score and the part because sometimes you have the piano score, but it’s not enough. So two directions appear or everything seems to be lost and you have to find the manuscripts and prepare a new complete edition. So, sometimes we renounce because we don’t find anything. So I have a list of titles we are waiting for example, “Fausto” by Louise Bertin which we renounced for 10 years and suddenly it reappeared in Bibliothèque nationale in Paris.

But in the meantime, you can be linked with a publisher like Choudens for “Mazeppa.” In that case we asked if we could just have a look at the score and the material and the parts of the orchestra. Then we realized that it’s not exactly the same things as the piano score, because there are two versions and we have to know that there are two versions “Mazeppa.”

While these differences are not big, there are a lot of details that are not the same here. In some there are 10 bars more, and 10 bars less. And in one you don’t have the women’s choir or in the other you don’t have the top G. Then you have to reconsider Chouden’s edition.

And we propose in that case to the publisher to make ourselves a correction directly in the score and part. So they keep the property. But it was a revision by Palazzetto Bozanet. It’s what we did. And then at that moment you are sure you can do it. You cast it and you know you have lots of people you want and people who agreed or are free to do it. So it’s not only I want her or him and you have it. In general, for our list, we have at least six singers on the list.

And then when you perform a rarity, you have no recording for them. So what I do, for example, for Nicole, or for the singers that are not French, first I do a piano karaoke with the pianist and we prepare a recording one year before, playing at the right tempo. I can send this to all the singers and they all arrive prepared with the same tempo for the quartet and the same tempo for finale. So it helps a lot, because they have the music and the pianists play also the melodic lines and the accompaniment. So it’s a job.

Then, for the foreigners, I record the text spoken piece by piece and I give them some details on the diphthong and vocals. And I send this also to everybody.

Then, for the choir, I prepare the score with accentuation, declamation. I mark the score for each voice in each number, where you have to push the voice. When you arrive with them, they all add the good accent in every one. I go to the choir to do the coaching in Budapest, in Tokyo, and in Munich. So some months ago, I went with the master choir and then we spoke about it. Then I try to make a meeting with the conductor, when I don’t know about the tempi, because it’s important. And then everybody arrives and it starts.

When we do something staged, for the staging director, if he cannot hear the music, I ask a pianist to play the music and I do a staging karaoke, meaning that I speak the text on the piano that is playing of all the characters, so that the director, when they listen to this, they have an idea of the dramatic timing.

And so when he’s thinking about his staging, he can listen to the music and in the meantime, he has my voice giving him the exact length, the rhythm of the declamation, and he understands if it’s fast or not fast. It can help him to understand better what will happen when he hears the music for the first time.

OW: What are some of the pieces that you would like to do in the future? 

AD: Yes, “Vercingétorix” by Félix Fourdrain. The opera is set during Julius Caesar’s Empire. Act one is set in the France during that time and features big battles. And then Act two, is in Rome with a lot of slaves and Christian slaves that will die.

Well, but I have a lot of titles for example “Bacchus” by Massenet, and “Étienne Marcel” by Saint-Saëns and all these works are unrecorded at the moment, as you can imagine. We have a big list.